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| Photo by Payson Power |
Daydream Plus is one of those projects that strikes you as emblematic of a certain style and ethos, but the more you dig into it, the more confounding it becomes. I initially checked out their Clues Recalled from Memory EP because I was looking for something chill to have on in the background while I read. It did the job, but something was darting out at me and biting around the periphery of my enjoyment. I eventually concluded that it must be the guitar solos. They feel both rangy and concise, occupying a perplexing antagonism between a wavy, pacifying melodicism and a gripping symptom of trouble. As a point of emphasis, these striking guitar lines are a legible method of decoding the album on the whole. That is, they represent the transformation of extravagant post-hardcore chords disciplined through a process of self-limiting refinement until they invert and resurface as a kind of flowy surf rock and ebullient, reedy funk. The project is, without a doubt, A divergent path for two of the dudes who help to bring the eldritch wail of the space-rock and death metal monstrosity Tomb Mold to life. Annnnnd there is your big reveal. Daydream Plus is Payson Power and Max Klebanoff of Tomb Mold, and together they play a cool and transportive style of AOR, that, as previously alluded, has more than a handful of prickly little tricks up its sleeve. I got in touch with Payson to find out what makes this project its odd and calming motion and you can read his responses below. As you'll see, he's put a lot of thought into how to construct these songs. As a bonus, when you are done listening to Clues Recalled from Memory, you'll find that there are plenty of other easy listening suggestions packed into this interview. I may need to reach out to Payson to make a playlist to illustrate some of what he's talking about in this article. We'll see what happens. In the meantime, I hope you enjoy the interview in its original form!
Interview was conducted via email on January 12, 2023. It has been lightly edited. All spellings are correct as far as Canadians are concerned.
Who are your biggest guitar influences, and how do you see them manifest through the music of Daydream Plus?
There are so many, but really I'm drawn to lead guitar parts that manage to be both catchy and technical. Legendary players like George Benson, Pat Metheny, and Toshiki Kadomatsu come to mind. It is easy to get caught up in the neverending quest for speed, and we get distracted from playing something simple to the absolute best of our ability... hearing the most accomplished guitarists carry a song with just a few notes and perfectly executed technique can be the most inspiring thing. Of course, I love the shred contingent as well, especially the maniacal breed of play ultra-fast with a clean tone. Musicians like Plini and Owane excel at this. I like to stay in the low gain zone with Daydream Plus, the clarity is really important to the overall sound and vibe. Writing and practicing with a clean tone has been something I've only been doing for a few years, but it's made a world of difference in my playing. Two other big inspirations for me are Mario and Erick from Chon, those dudes have all the chops in the world, plus the most interesting harmonies that take their songs to a whole new level. I've been inspired to pepper my own melody lines with the occasional harmony and I love how animated it sounds. For now, it's just short, controlled bursts, but maybe next time I'll draw out some longer harmonies and map out that dimension with a bit more fervor. When it comes to rhythm guitar, I like to keep it simple. I *attempt* to emulate the pinpoint accuracy and jazzy chords of AOR, while also reimagining the microcosm of Midwestern emo as if it originated from a coastal setting as opposed to a graveyard of landlocked parking lots and street lights.
How did you first encounter "city pop"?
Through YouTube. I heard a vinyl rip of the album Love Trip by Takako Mamiya and was struck by how the album felt like its own little world. Strangely, moments of that record reminded me of one of my favourite songs, the theme tune for WKRP In Cincinnati by Steve Carlisle. Something about the key changes, like letting out a sigh alone on a bench in a parkette. Both pack a similar nostalgia-laden haymaker that I can't quite place. After that I heard Tatsuro Yamashita and since then have proceeded to find great music in that style on a regular basis.
Who are your favorite artists in the "city pop" stratum?
My favourite is probably Anri, I love her catalogue of wistful and melancholy lyrics imprinted on the most opaque pop arrangements. Timely is one of my favourite albums. Tatsuro Yamashita's blindingly sunny production is its own kind of sorcery to me. For You and Ride On Time are easy answers for top tier city pop, but I cannot deny them. Just listen to the song Sparkle and you will feel it. Casiopea I love for their creativity and their ability to write whirlwind pop songs that highlight all the instruments in a way that any musician can soak in and appreciate.
Would you care to weigh in on whether "city pop" is a proper term for this style of music? As I understand, in Japan they think of this stuff as just pop music. What makes the term "city pop" applicable, or not?
I personally am not over the moon about the term. Lots of the most popular city pop doesn't even sound like the metropolitan hustle and bustle that you'd expect from the name. The classification is so vague as well, with the defining characteristics being that it is easy listening and from Japan. Those are some broad strokes! "Yacht rock" I feel even more disdainful towards, so I guess it could be worse. I think AOR is a better way to describe both aforementioned genres, if you must. Ultimately, people just love to put things in boxes. Genre tags are often just as detrimental as they are useful. Terms like shoegaze and slowcore are other examples, they're so limited by a specific set of characteristics. It's hard not to feel stifled when saddled with one of these descriptors. On the other hand, when you say "city pop" people know what you mean, so it works. It's mostly retroactive too, which makes it a little more charming. So yeah, mixed feelings!
The more modern, technical guitar parts you're pulling in from post-hardcore sound very natural in the overall mix. Was it difficult to integrate these parts with your other "poppier" influences on this record? What did you need to remain conscious of to get the vibe right?
Thanks! I am glad it sounds that way. I wrote those parts with the help of a looper pedal playing my chord progression repeatedly. Once I had a skeleton of a lead guitar part I would just start whittling it down and reshaping it, over and over, until I am convinced I can't improve on it any further. Often the finished product had basically nothing in common with the first-pass skeleton melody. The lead also makes me go back and reevaluate how the chords are played rhythmically, and that's the step where I blend the two parts into something really cohesive. I wanted the leads to sound very natural and never jarring. To achieve the intended vibe I tried to think of the guitar lead as a vocal melody; that's what prevented me from going overboard with unnecessary bursts of notes. Ultimately, the combo of poppy jazz chords and softly angular leads worked better than I had hoped, I was stoked when everything clicked.
A comment on your Bandcamp page references Toe. Is this a fair comparison in your mind? Does this style of post-hardcore and indie rock do anything to contextualize your sound? I can see it from a "math-rock" angle, but the comparisons seem to stop there for me.
I can't say I hear a ton of Toe in our music, but I'm certainly not upset by the comparison. I think Max's drumming has a lot to do with that. Toe are an incredible band, and if our songs give anyone the same feeling that is fantastic. I wouldn't say that post-hardcore has a ton to do with our sound, although the genre has been very inspiring for my entire life as a musician. The difference here is letting the poppier elements steer the ship, and aiming for a more typical song structure. I often default to my teenage self and play something angular or atonal and then start working on removing the "stressful" elements. The songs are allowed to feel a little melancholy or tense, as long as I can pack them in bubble wrap when they're done. This is where the AOR influence swoops in. I'm trying to capture a mood while still writing songs that sound like me. I can't speak for Max when it comes to writing drum parts, but it's safe to say he pulls inspiration from everything he listens to, and he is all over the map when it comes to influences.
What are your thoughts on the manufactured nature of much of AOR and most definitely "city pop," as in its often music that is attempting to respond to, or directly reflects, life in a high-tech, industrial society? Do you have any thoughts on this?
I don't necessarily think it's trying to reflect that type of life so much as it is trying to provide an escape, especially to people in the throes of extreme work culture. Fantasizing about living in the impossibly beautiful album art of Hiroshi Nagai and Eizin Suzuki is the next best thing to taking a vacation. It's hard to beat the feeling of getting swept up in a record like Hot Is Cool by Horii Katsumi Project and letting it take you out to sea with impeccable grooves as your life preserver. Or if you're in the mood for life in the fast lane you can put on After 5 Clash by Toshiki Kadomatsu and picture yourself hitting the clubs every night in search of the love of your life amid the most compressed guitar tone you've ever heard. Or listening to Minute By Minute by the Doobie Brothers and all of a sudden you're driving down the highway towards the sprawl of LA in a Cadillac towards a sun that never sets, pining over an old flame who still has your MXR Phase 90. Should you call them? Maybe. It's not exactly an expensive pedal, but still. I think you're onto something with the music as a response to life in the accelerated world, but for me the music runs the gamut of every day emotion and there is an antidote for every degree of longing.
A lot of people in metal and hardcore seem to be finding their way into AOR. And it's not just older (30+) either. Why do you think people who seek out aggressive music, also seek out mellower stuff like what you're playing?
That's a good question. I know what you're referring to for sure, a lot of classic (and some not-so-classic) AOR seems to be having a resurgence. Maybe it's nostalgia for a different era that's only getting further and further away. Everything old is new again, and we miss the world we never got to visit. Maybe it's more simple than that and it's just jarring since AOR has been labeled "uncool" for so long. Overall I would just say it's about balance though.
What do your bandmates in Tomb Mold think of the project?
Well, Max has been down since day one! Whenever I imagine a drum part, he ends up playing something way better. We have a decade of playing together in bands, so it's a perfect fit. Derrick is a fan as he loves anything with this many guitar solos. I enjoy the fact that all of us have our other projects (Derrick with Dream Unending and Max with Death Kneel) that are completely different from Tomb Mold, and I know those guys do too. I think our involvement in other types of music has helped us to try different things, and we use our collective experience to build something interesting and powerful in the swirling death metal whirlpool. (I asked my dawgs to help me answer this one, I am paraphrasing them both).
Is Daydream Plus a live band? If so, what venues could you see yourselves playing at in Ontario?
I'd love to, and I'm confident we will! The songs were written in a way that a four person band could play them live with basically zero compromises on the studio versions. We'll wait a bit before we introduce an auxiliary percussionist and make it needlessly complicated. As far as venues, I'm down to play pretty much anywhere. I'd honestly like to play a house show, it's been a minute.
Are there more Daydream Plus tunes in the works?
Yes, the next release is almost fully written. I still need to write the bass parts, which is not my strong suit. I love the challenge though.
Who are your biggest guitar influences, and how do you see them manifest through the music of Daydream Plus?
There are so many, but really I'm drawn to lead guitar parts that manage to be both catchy and technical. Legendary players like George Benson, Pat Metheny, and Toshiki Kadomatsu come to mind. It is easy to get caught up in the neverending quest for speed, and we get distracted from playing something simple to the absolute best of our ability... hearing the most accomplished guitarists carry a song with just a few notes and perfectly executed technique can be the most inspiring thing. Of course, I love the shred contingent as well, especially the maniacal breed of play ultra-fast with a clean tone. Musicians like Plini and Owane excel at this. I like to stay in the low gain zone with Daydream Plus, the clarity is really important to the overall sound and vibe. Writing and practicing with a clean tone has been something I've only been doing for a few years, but it's made a world of difference in my playing. Two other big inspirations for me are Mario and Erick from Chon, those dudes have all the chops in the world, plus the most interesting harmonies that take their songs to a whole new level. I've been inspired to pepper my own melody lines with the occasional harmony and I love how animated it sounds. For now, it's just short, controlled bursts, but maybe next time I'll draw out some longer harmonies and map out that dimension with a bit more fervor. When it comes to rhythm guitar, I like to keep it simple. I *attempt* to emulate the pinpoint accuracy and jazzy chords of AOR, while also reimagining the microcosm of Midwestern emo as if it originated from a coastal setting as opposed to a graveyard of landlocked parking lots and street lights.
How did you first encounter "city pop"?
Through YouTube. I heard a vinyl rip of the album Love Trip by Takako Mamiya and was struck by how the album felt like its own little world. Strangely, moments of that record reminded me of one of my favourite songs, the theme tune for WKRP In Cincinnati by Steve Carlisle. Something about the key changes, like letting out a sigh alone on a bench in a parkette. Both pack a similar nostalgia-laden haymaker that I can't quite place. After that I heard Tatsuro Yamashita and since then have proceeded to find great music in that style on a regular basis.
Who are your favorite artists in the "city pop" stratum?
My favourite is probably Anri, I love her catalogue of wistful and melancholy lyrics imprinted on the most opaque pop arrangements. Timely is one of my favourite albums. Tatsuro Yamashita's blindingly sunny production is its own kind of sorcery to me. For You and Ride On Time are easy answers for top tier city pop, but I cannot deny them. Just listen to the song Sparkle and you will feel it. Casiopea I love for their creativity and their ability to write whirlwind pop songs that highlight all the instruments in a way that any musician can soak in and appreciate.
Would you care to weigh in on whether "city pop" is a proper term for this style of music? As I understand, in Japan they think of this stuff as just pop music. What makes the term "city pop" applicable, or not?
I personally am not over the moon about the term. Lots of the most popular city pop doesn't even sound like the metropolitan hustle and bustle that you'd expect from the name. The classification is so vague as well, with the defining characteristics being that it is easy listening and from Japan. Those are some broad strokes! "Yacht rock" I feel even more disdainful towards, so I guess it could be worse. I think AOR is a better way to describe both aforementioned genres, if you must. Ultimately, people just love to put things in boxes. Genre tags are often just as detrimental as they are useful. Terms like shoegaze and slowcore are other examples, they're so limited by a specific set of characteristics. It's hard not to feel stifled when saddled with one of these descriptors. On the other hand, when you say "city pop" people know what you mean, so it works. It's mostly retroactive too, which makes it a little more charming. So yeah, mixed feelings!
The more modern, technical guitar parts you're pulling in from post-hardcore sound very natural in the overall mix. Was it difficult to integrate these parts with your other "poppier" influences on this record? What did you need to remain conscious of to get the vibe right?
Thanks! I am glad it sounds that way. I wrote those parts with the help of a looper pedal playing my chord progression repeatedly. Once I had a skeleton of a lead guitar part I would just start whittling it down and reshaping it, over and over, until I am convinced I can't improve on it any further. Often the finished product had basically nothing in common with the first-pass skeleton melody. The lead also makes me go back and reevaluate how the chords are played rhythmically, and that's the step where I blend the two parts into something really cohesive. I wanted the leads to sound very natural and never jarring. To achieve the intended vibe I tried to think of the guitar lead as a vocal melody; that's what prevented me from going overboard with unnecessary bursts of notes. Ultimately, the combo of poppy jazz chords and softly angular leads worked better than I had hoped, I was stoked when everything clicked.
A comment on your Bandcamp page references Toe. Is this a fair comparison in your mind? Does this style of post-hardcore and indie rock do anything to contextualize your sound? I can see it from a "math-rock" angle, but the comparisons seem to stop there for me.
I can't say I hear a ton of Toe in our music, but I'm certainly not upset by the comparison. I think Max's drumming has a lot to do with that. Toe are an incredible band, and if our songs give anyone the same feeling that is fantastic. I wouldn't say that post-hardcore has a ton to do with our sound, although the genre has been very inspiring for my entire life as a musician. The difference here is letting the poppier elements steer the ship, and aiming for a more typical song structure. I often default to my teenage self and play something angular or atonal and then start working on removing the "stressful" elements. The songs are allowed to feel a little melancholy or tense, as long as I can pack them in bubble wrap when they're done. This is where the AOR influence swoops in. I'm trying to capture a mood while still writing songs that sound like me. I can't speak for Max when it comes to writing drum parts, but it's safe to say he pulls inspiration from everything he listens to, and he is all over the map when it comes to influences.
What are your thoughts on the manufactured nature of much of AOR and most definitely "city pop," as in its often music that is attempting to respond to, or directly reflects, life in a high-tech, industrial society? Do you have any thoughts on this?
I don't necessarily think it's trying to reflect that type of life so much as it is trying to provide an escape, especially to people in the throes of extreme work culture. Fantasizing about living in the impossibly beautiful album art of Hiroshi Nagai and Eizin Suzuki is the next best thing to taking a vacation. It's hard to beat the feeling of getting swept up in a record like Hot Is Cool by Horii Katsumi Project and letting it take you out to sea with impeccable grooves as your life preserver. Or if you're in the mood for life in the fast lane you can put on After 5 Clash by Toshiki Kadomatsu and picture yourself hitting the clubs every night in search of the love of your life amid the most compressed guitar tone you've ever heard. Or listening to Minute By Minute by the Doobie Brothers and all of a sudden you're driving down the highway towards the sprawl of LA in a Cadillac towards a sun that never sets, pining over an old flame who still has your MXR Phase 90. Should you call them? Maybe. It's not exactly an expensive pedal, but still. I think you're onto something with the music as a response to life in the accelerated world, but for me the music runs the gamut of every day emotion and there is an antidote for every degree of longing.
A lot of people in metal and hardcore seem to be finding their way into AOR. And it's not just older (30+) either. Why do you think people who seek out aggressive music, also seek out mellower stuff like what you're playing?
That's a good question. I know what you're referring to for sure, a lot of classic (and some not-so-classic) AOR seems to be having a resurgence. Maybe it's nostalgia for a different era that's only getting further and further away. Everything old is new again, and we miss the world we never got to visit. Maybe it's more simple than that and it's just jarring since AOR has been labeled "uncool" for so long. Overall I would just say it's about balance though.
What do your bandmates in Tomb Mold think of the project?
Well, Max has been down since day one! Whenever I imagine a drum part, he ends up playing something way better. We have a decade of playing together in bands, so it's a perfect fit. Derrick is a fan as he loves anything with this many guitar solos. I enjoy the fact that all of us have our other projects (Derrick with Dream Unending and Max with Death Kneel) that are completely different from Tomb Mold, and I know those guys do too. I think our involvement in other types of music has helped us to try different things, and we use our collective experience to build something interesting and powerful in the swirling death metal whirlpool. (I asked my dawgs to help me answer this one, I am paraphrasing them both).
Is Daydream Plus a live band? If so, what venues could you see yourselves playing at in Ontario?
I'd love to, and I'm confident we will! The songs were written in a way that a four person band could play them live with basically zero compromises on the studio versions. We'll wait a bit before we introduce an auxiliary percussionist and make it needlessly complicated. As far as venues, I'm down to play pretty much anywhere. I'd honestly like to play a house show, it's been a minute.
Are there more Daydream Plus tunes in the works?
Yes, the next release is almost fully written. I still need to write the bass parts, which is not my strong suit. I love the challenge though.
Anything else you'd like to add?
Just a thank you to anyone who has supported the band in any way. I wanted to shout out John Slaby for painting the cover, and Matthew Tomasi for being patient with me doing a million takes of everything. That's it! I really enjoyed answering these questions, thank you for having me!
Just a thank you to anyone who has supported the band in any way. I wanted to shout out John Slaby for painting the cover, and Matthew Tomasi for being patient with me doing a million takes of everything. That's it! I really enjoyed answering these questions, thank you for having me!
